Comments on: After church thoughts (3-16-07)

By: Beth

Beth — Wed, 02 May 2007 00:31:58 +0000

Paul I am so proud of you for following the Holy Spirit.
I must confess that I am selfish I will miss your teachings, you have been a vessel of the Holy Spirit to me and my family. Refreshing!!!!
I do not conform to church and I too will go where God leads me. I have worshiped in large churches and living rooms, park pavillions and even outside of bars! The only thing that stayed the same is what was the focus and that was Jesus Christ.
Dan B. my prayer is your prayer- it is not only for Northgate but there is a crisis in churches all across this Country. Young people do not feel welcomed, judgement greets outsiders at the door, there is a disconnect of insiders and outsiders.
One recent post said if Jesus were to walk in the door….
What?????
What made anyone think he wasn’t there?
He is in the hallway listening to complainers…
He is in the bathroom watching people fix their hair just right…
He is in the cars as people put objects under the seat so that others cannot judge….
He is sitting next to the single mother who is alone.
He is sitting next to the man who is afraid that he will be laid off…
That is the Church I want to be part of….One where Jesus is.

By: The Five Most Viewed Posts of the Month « Paul Peterson

The Five Most Viewed Posts of the Month « Paul Peterson — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:11:59 +0000

[...] After church thoughts (3-16-07) – in this post I summarized the sermon “Jesus was relevant”. This post has seen the most feedback of any post in the history of this blog. [...]

By: Pauls Friend Dan B

Pauls Friend Dan B — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 00:09:41 +0000

Just a few more comments re: this issue. Again, I’m an outsider going on what I’ve read from the above blogs. It really does pain me to witness this strife over what has been deemed important by some and petty by others. To those of you who are traditionalist, I understand that there are comforts in the traditions that you’ve grown accustomed to, but if you will step back and listen to what you’re saying re: the traditions I think you may be suprised as to what is coming from your mouth. I don’t want to come across as belittling or degrading, but your words are selfish. They are all about what will make you comfortable and make it easy for you. This is not what church is about. We need to be shaken from our comfort zones and realize that we need to do anything (bar sinning) to reach the lost. There are thousands of churches out there that do not have a pastor with the vision that yours does. I have known your pastor for years, and witness him go from a down and outer who hit rock bottom because of major sin in his life to a man that I look up to and respect. If anyone knows what needs to be done to be relavent to the down and outers, the unchurched it is him.
I pray that you will not disregard what I say, but rather ask God to search your heart and see if you are more interested in what makes you comfortable or what needs to be done to reach the lost. I think it’s time that the world wide church of God get vertical rather than horizontal. We need to get our focus off of us and onto Him and His goals.
Again, I know that I’m an outsider, but I’ve set through a church split over petty things, which when we view our comfort in the light of lost souls they are petty. Satan will use whatever he can to divide and conquer. Please don’t let that happen to your church.

By: Believer

Believer — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:27:23 +0000

I find it very strange to be blogging, for I have never done this before. After reading the many messages about what the people of the church are feeling and saying, I wanted to share some of my thoughts. I grew up in a very traditional church-but all people believed, prayed and were with Christ. I think that if you are a Christen that is what makes you one. I had a very hard time coming to Northgate, because it was so different from the types of churches I had attended previously. However, I do believe in God and his word and went for spiritual help. The more I went the more I became used to the change. I must admit that I still long for old hymns, or saying the Lord’s prayer, and some of the other more traditional qualities. I hope that has a new parent, God helps me be a better parent, a more loving wife and a person who is always seeking Him. I find it easy to get what I need from Church, even though the congregation has grown and times have changed, as have many other things. Change is good, but I don’t think that we need to change everything if it is working. I pray for those that seem to have lost their way and for those that have found it. Today I feel I have become a “risk taker”. Paul spoke about that today and by expressing my thoughts and ideas for others to read, is a huge risk for me. I will pray for Paul and his family as they take their risk and begin a new endeavor.

By: Pauls Friend Dan B

Pauls Friend Dan B — Sun, 29 Apr 2007 01:31:03 +0000

Wow, I’m a friend of Pastor Pauls from way back, and an outsider to your church. So, let me add my bit to this. To those of you who have been in the church for years and have become very comfortable with your traditions and feel as though you have to have these in order to be a secure and effective Christian, I’m very sorry. You talked about how you need these things to be secure. What has happend to being secure in the fact that the Almighty, Everlasting, Long-suffering, God that we serve has redeemed us and made us heirs to His kingdom. We as a church body world wide need to wake up to the fact that church is not there primarily for us as Christians. Jesus stated that he came for the sick, not the healthy. As far as traditions go, it was a tradition in the temple to have money changers and the sorts in the temple, and we all know what Jesus did with them. He ran them out with a whip. Jesus was not into tradition. If so he would have never spoken to the Samaritan woman at the well, he would have never let His disciples pick corn to eat on the Sabbath, He would have never healed on the sabbath, He would not have forgiven the adultris woman brought to Him. You talk about an out of the box individual. That’s the Jesus that we all serve. And, the last time I checked our goal as Christians is to become like Him. Jesus was accused of being drunk and a glutton. Why? Because he broke tradition and spent time with sinners. Check out the new testament, Jesus had no use for the traditions of the day. Every chance he had he was condemming the religious leaders of the day. Why? Because they were caught up in tradition rather than seeing the big picture.

I’m sorry if I’ve come off a little harsh, but I have experienced what tradition can bring. I’ve been through a church that had more than doubled size in 2 years, but when all the sinners started coming and tradition was broken certain members rallied to keep their traditions causing a church split. I still know individuals today, (that having been 15 years ago) that are very far from God because of tradition. I have struggled from that time until this past January when God delivered me from my bitterness toward the tradion keepers. Thank God for what He has done in my life. I know many people who are not comfortable in coming to church because they don’t have the nice clothes to wear. I can tell you that if they new a pastor was in jeans preaching on sunday, they would be much more receptive to coming to church. I struggle with this same issue in my church. My pastor would love to hang up the suite and tie except for weddings and funerals, but we have some long time members who just can’t get past comfortable traditions. I ran into this issue just a couple of weeks ago when I had individuals from my work who are unchurched coming to a church function, and the first thing they were worried about was what do I have to wear to your church. HOW SAD IS THAT.

To those of you who are comfortable in your traditions, I pray that you spend time talking to God about what He wants you to do. Should you be so concerned with traditions, or should you thank God for and support a pastor that has one vision for his church, and that is to reach a lost and dying world.

To those of you who support you pastor, I pray that God will strengthen you in your resolve to reach the lost and dying world

By: someone

someone — Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:15:28 +0000

I tossed and turned if I should even ad to this mess!
OK if Jesus walked in Northgate I can almost garentee his feet would dirty
So are you going to JUDGE him? Or are you going to wash his feet?
I cant find the verse to back me up but it goes something like this
“The way you judge others is the way you will be judged”
Thats a little scary dont you think?
So is it really so bad that our pastor wears jeans? Come on people!!
Theres to many Indians and not enouph cheifs in this church.
so many people want to be heard in the church and again theres a verse for that but I cant find it to back me up!
pretty much in my terms women should sit on the right side of the church and keep there moouths closed!!!!
I know Paul and sherri personally and I wasn’t sure if anyone relized that they have a life outside of Northgate. Paul has 3 girls and a child on the way!! theres only 24 hours in a day people!!! when is Paul suppose to have family time with his wife and kids when he’s trying to deal with everyone dumping there problems on him. I just dont understand the fight!
Paul is a darn good pastor he is only human
Last i knew we are only human and we all make mistakes! to those who got it all together! You sound so evil!
Does pastor Paul have to live his life dealing with negativeness 24 hours a day!! NO !!! noone should No one could walk a day in his shoes!! and survive with out popin some valumes!!
I need one write now just thinking of what a horible world this is and how nasty people really can be.
Kristen and Max made the right move they got out why they could!!
To pastor Paul YOur a wonderful husband an awesome dad an inspiring pastor, a good friend and a true and honest man of GOD!!
Let people have there opinions and judge there not prepared for our Lords coming and dont let that fall on you. YOu and Sherri are wonderful people ! YOur wife is a very excepting women she is very understanding and furthermost she’s a wonderful wife and mother people could learn alot from her!
I just pray for you and your family Paul what an attack!! You just need to know your a good person!! Go with your dreams!!

By: Late night reflections « Paul Peterson

Late night reflections « Paul Peterson — Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:19:08 +0000

[...] can’t believe all the action that this post is [...]

By: Lori

Lori — Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:29:55 +0000

NY Mustang,
I am sad about your decision. You used to minister God’s love and beauty to me in a deep way with your incredible talent. Maybe that doesn’t matter much to the other 800+ Northgaters, but it matters very much to me. I miss you. Please don’t stay away long.

By: Pastor Ray

Pastor Ray — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:51:46 +0000

And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring… It seems that not much has changed since the early church. Whether the concerns expressed in this forum are legitimate or not should not be the focus, but rather what solutions can be found and what can be learned from this experience. Perhaps the example of the early church can help (And the saying pleased the whole multitude). Change and reactions to that change will always occur in the church. Pastor Paul will always be ahead of the congregation in implementing change and rightly so. Emotions run high. Motives are questioned. God is doing something phenomenal at Northgate. How the church chooses to address the issue of change will determine the future at Northgate. Pastor Paul would be the first to admit that he is fallable but it is interesting to note that nowhere on this blog has he attempted to strike back at his accusers even though his heart must be hurting. Are you will to help by offering yourself in service? You say, “It’s not wanted.” But are you willing to serve wherever you’re asked? I feel confident that Pastor Paul and his staff would welcome your help. Well, I’m off to the mall. I hear that you can buy a phone that works without a cord. Can you imagine?

By: Maureen

Maureen — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:10:25 +0000

Just to clear things up a bit, I have no problem with where the communion table is, Pastor Paul wearing jeans, no crosses in the worship center (although they are there now), the music or the fact there is no altar anymore. I disagree with Pastor Rocky about them having “not one ounce of eternal consequence” because if those things are affecting people’s desire to worship at Northgate, they obviously could have an “eternal consequence.” They are becoming stumbling blocks to a brother’s faith, which the Bible warns us of. Obviously some of the things have to deal with personal comfort or tradition for the “seasoned” Christians of the church. As Pastor Rocky wrote, “we may need to evaluate our traditions (not Biblical principles) to see if we can more effectively attract those who have not heard or who might hear for the first time.” I don’t believe the new believer or new attendee to Northgate cares where the communion table is, or that Pastor Paul is wearing jeans now, or that there are or aren’t any crosses in the sanctuary or that there is no altar. They wouldn’t care because they’ve never been to the church before and to them they are just asthetic things. However, to the person who has been attending Northgate for years and has come to enjoy these things about the church, they are extremely important!! I think the point is if it doesn’t affect the newcomers and it does the regular attenders, then why not leave these types of things alone in order for all to be happy??!! Those types of changes do not make our church more “culturally relevant” and I don’t believe they “more effectively attract those who have not heard or who might hear for the first time” as Pastor Rocky says.

These types of changes are considered “change for the sake of change,” not change for the good of the people. Maybe they’ve made the new pastor more comfortable, but not the church members who have come to appreciate them, and if those decisions are hurting some, why not realize the mistake and change things back? Why not try to avoid conflict, rather than welcome it, especially when it’s over things that he and others may deem “petty”?

My concern for Northgate is the seeming lack of respect for the people of the church that have been there for years (and maybe not so long even). Our mission is “to bring people to Jesus Christ and to build them up in that relationship.” The leadership of the church seems to be completely focused on the “bringing” aspect and not the “building” part right now. Northgate used to be a very different church in that we had around 75% of the congregation involved in small groups or ABF’s, which is unheard of in churches these days (the norm is around 30% or so). We were sooooo proud of that and it allowed people to get connected individually even when they felt the church was rather large in numbers! Now the focus of the church is on the number of candles we have lit up front every week. Don’t get me wrong–I praise God for each and every one of those lost souls that have been found–but that’s the “easy” part!! Now is when Northgate needs to shine and distinguish itself from other churches around so those candles keep burning brightly!!

It’s been mentioned before that if we continue to “bring, bring, bring” and provide no programs for “building” or alienate the “mature” members we have, Northgate will be a church full of babies with no one to mentor them into adulthood. Is that what we want for our church? I hope not! I agree with Kevin in that we can’t just focus on the number of people coming in to the church and pay no attention to the number leaving!! I don’t believe that’s what God would want either. I want to see Northgate continue to grow as it has been, but without losing some of the key lay people of the church in doing so!!

Let me end with saying I love Pastor Paul and his family and I think they are wonderful people! He’s young and he’s learning in the process and I pray he chooses to listen and react appropriately to the people who are hurting (not just the unsaved hurting)!!